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古典装备镰刀战车到底是步兵方阵杀手还只是个祥瑞?

樓主“落日hartram”:最近在學習古典時代的戰爭, 學習中感覺鐮刀戰車這種兵種很不靠譜啊,本身就只適合平坦平原的大規模戰役, 但在各個戰役中又表現不佳。

庫納克薩戰役被希臘步兵擊潰, 還好本方贏了;高加米拉戰役和喀羅尼亞戰役表現也很差.;馬格尼西亞戰役和奧克美納斯戰役更慘, 一個被擊潰后沖垮了自己的騎兵, 一個被擊潰后沖垮了自己的步兵;奧克美納斯戰役后總算被淘汰了;感覺是個瑞祥啊......但很奇怪這種瑞祥兵種為何持續了四百多年才被淘汰?

難道在其他中小戰役里發揮過很大的作用?


應用于皮特利亞戰役中的卷鐮戰車

羊羽:這幾個戰役的希臘、馬其頓、羅馬方陣, 陣型都比較嚴密, 組織度較高, 有的還有較為強力的騎兵。

反過來若是對付沒有這些長處的敵軍, 戰車就可成為大殺器了吧。

感覺有點類似戰象, 往往起初能一鳴驚人, 但若是對手水平夠高, 往往能找到有效的反制措施。


達芬奇研究的鐮刀戰車草圖

落日hartram:但問題沒有其他戰役的記錄~

MAOPI:拉美西斯二世的卡疊石之戰算不?

王牌拖拉機:最后拉美西斯輸了吧, 他自己吹成摧枯拉朽給自己貼金, 而且有種說法是純粹的撞大運撿了條命,而且他那時候有卷鐮戰車么?

Gustavus:沒有, 鐮刀戰車的實錘記載最早是在第一波斯帝國時期。

韃官貴人:高加米拉不同的記載戰車的效果不一樣,

有的產生了不少效果。

赤色MA:我怎么記得馬其頓人的一側差點被打崩。 如果不是大流士逃跑勝負未可知。

御坂10411:軍事體系又不是想改就能改~你列舉的這些戰役, 本身都不是同一個文明的戰爭, 當時既沒有流傳廣泛的記錄, 又沒有軍事觀察員一說~軍事體系全憑你建我拆自己摸索~你上帝視角當然覺得這很奇怪。 莫說古典時代, 近現代戰術的新陳代謝也不是說來就來的~

另外, 古典時代西亞人死心眼罷了~

起碼到了戰國時代中國戰車就已經被定義為搭配騎兵使用的側翼突擊力量, 結果西方這邊從波斯到繼業者都是陣前一波流硬啃的路數~風險決定成敗嘍~


波斯鐮刀戰車

莫德里德:到文藝復興時期還有達芬奇的腦洞在馬的前方加滾刀刃的馬拉戰車呢, 軍隊對割草機的需求從未停止, 即使作用有限。

橙色指揮官:遭遇組織嚴密, 訓練有素的軍隊, 如果再有個頭腦清晰的指揮官。 戰象、戰車都占不到什么便宜, 但是問題是不是所有軍隊都符合這一條件。

落日hartram:但很奇怪, 查不到鐮刀戰車其他的戰例, 不知道表現如何。

橙色指揮官:本都人用鐮刀戰車欺負過羅馬的雜牌軍。


本都國王的鐮刀戰車

jerry-dong:雅典組織的在埃及的軍事冒險慘敗, 希臘人前后賠了250艘軍艦, 不亞于后來的西西里, 但波斯人怎么在陸戰擊潰埃及希臘聯軍的, 完全找不到記錄。

矢鋒:漢尼拔也愛用戰象。 這玩意兒要不是那么難搞的話指揮官們不會拒絕的。

落日hartram:戰象的勝績不少, 但查了下鐮刀戰車的記載好像也就本都在對羅馬有一次勝績, 其他都是GG....

矢鋒:本來就只是一種不怎么成功的輔助武器。 戰車作戰主要是發揮其機動性, 鐮刀車過長且危險的車軸反而是不便機動, 尤其是不便隊列機動, 也不便于和己方步騎配合。 鐮刀車軸看上去很酷, 其實攻擊范圍很有限。 步兵擋住馬頭, 鐮刀就砍不到人, 步兵躲開馬頭, 鐮刀更砍不到人。 這一來, 這些看起來很虎的鐮刀還如直接站在車上用弓箭長矛攻擊來得有效。 一來二去, 鐮刀車也只剩下嚇唬一下輕步兵了。

米蘭鐵神蝸殼:戰象的戰績也不怎么樣, 哪為何還使用到17世紀?

jerry-dong:古典時代, 戰象支持的輕步兵足以迫使任何騎兵停下,

而披甲戰象能夠掃蕩各路雜牌抗線步兵, 政治上, 養大象比養一支精銳重步省事多了。

米蘭鐵神蝸殼:但是大象被打得向后轉進沖擊己方陣線的情況也不少啊。

jerry-dong:把戰象與輕步, 弓箭手當預備隊, 可以有效阻擋敵方優勢騎兵翼攻擊(塞琉古和皮洛士都是此道老手), 玩砸是習慣拿戰象沖雜牌步兵線, 遇上正規對手也玩這套就立馬二逼(成功也有, 第一次布匿與狗頭山)。

米蘭鐵神蝸殼:也就是說拿戰象當騎兵那樣用的基本上都會翻車?

jerry-dong:投入沖擊, 就容易翻車, 例如拉菲比會戰安條克在側翼投入太多大象壓陣, 導致騎兵無法及時掉頭包抄托勒密的背后。 大象適合配合輕步兵活動克制對方騎兵, 如果征發重步垃圾,那也只能指望戰象抗線。


戰象

落日hartram:戰象的勝績還是蠻多的,皮洛斯勝過,迦太基在第一次布匿戰爭的時候在北非也勝過,漢尼拔在特雷比亞河戰役勝過,繼業者戰爭更不用說了,除西方之外,印度和東南亞也用得不錯。

Gustavus:很簡單,樓主史料讀得太少:

斯巴達國王就在那里過冬,軍隊的補給一部分就地取用,一部分則通過外出搶掠。

碰巧有一次,正當士兵們收集糧草的時候一一由于他們此前從未遇到過任何麻煩,因此顯得傲慢而漫不經心,他們分散到在平原各地一一法那巴佐斯統率兩輛綁有長柄鐮刀的戰車,以及大約400名騎兵向他們發起攻擊。

當希臘人看到法那巴佐斯向他們逼近的時候,趕緊集合,聚集起大約700人的隊伍。法那巴佐斯當機立斷,將戰車置于最前面,他本人和騎兵跟隨在戰車后面,隨后下令向希臘人進攻。

戰車突入密集的戰陣,將希臘人沖得七零八落,騎兵則快速跟進,將約100名士兵打翻在地,其他人倉惶逃竄,向阿格西勞斯和他的重裝步兵靠攏,因為他們碰巧就在附近。

——色諾芬,希臘史,第四卷第1章16-19

前面有人提到高加米拉的不同記載,可見以下譯文:

鐮刀戰車的突破:

The charioteers drove on at full speed, in order to trample down greater numbers by a surprise attack. Therefore some were cut to pieces by the spears that projected far in advance of the pole, others by the scythes that pointed downward on both sides. And the Macedonians did not give ground gradually, but in scattered flight had thrown their ranks into disorder.

鐮刀戰車的潰敗和突圍,還特意描寫了下被割到的慘狀:

Meanwhile the chariots, which in the neighbourhood of the leading standards had thrown the army into confusion, had charged upon the phalanx; the Macedonians with steady courage received them into the midst of their column. Their line was like a rampart; they had made a continuous row of spears together, and on both sides stabbed the flanks of the horses, as these rushed recklessly upon them. Then they began to encircle the chariots also and to hurl those who fought in them to the ground. The great overthrow of horses and charioteers had filled the field of battle; the charioteers could not control their frightened horses, which by repeated tossing of their necks had not only thrown off their yokes, but had even over turned the chariots; when wounded, they dragged along the dead, and were unable to stop through terror or to advance through weakness. Yet a few chariots-and-four made their way through to the rear, destroying those whom they met by a wretched death; for the severed limbs of men lay upon the ground, and since there was no pain while their wounds were still warm, maimed and weak though they were, some did not drop their weapons until they fell on their faces, dead from great loss of blood.

——Curtius的Loeb譯本

順便,決定繼業者大勢的Ipsus(前301年)里,取勝的塞琉古聯軍一方就有100輛鐮刀——雖然作戰細節欠奉,所以瑞祥一說顯然也無法成立。

注:本文所有圖片均來源于網絡。

本文是看北朝發布內容。主編原廓,作者北朝網友,歡迎任何媒體或者公眾號轉載,轉載同是需注明出處,若有未注明者取消轉載資格。

如果征發重步垃圾,那也只能指望戰象抗線。


戰象

落日hartram:戰象的勝績還是蠻多的,皮洛斯勝過,迦太基在第一次布匿戰爭的時候在北非也勝過,漢尼拔在特雷比亞河戰役勝過,繼業者戰爭更不用說了,除西方之外,印度和東南亞也用得不錯。

Gustavus:很簡單,樓主史料讀得太少:

斯巴達國王就在那里過冬,軍隊的補給一部分就地取用,一部分則通過外出搶掠。

碰巧有一次,正當士兵們收集糧草的時候一一由于他們此前從未遇到過任何麻煩,因此顯得傲慢而漫不經心,他們分散到在平原各地一一法那巴佐斯統率兩輛綁有長柄鐮刀的戰車,以及大約400名騎兵向他們發起攻擊。

當希臘人看到法那巴佐斯向他們逼近的時候,趕緊集合,聚集起大約700人的隊伍。法那巴佐斯當機立斷,將戰車置于最前面,他本人和騎兵跟隨在戰車后面,隨后下令向希臘人進攻。

戰車突入密集的戰陣,將希臘人沖得七零八落,騎兵則快速跟進,將約100名士兵打翻在地,其他人倉惶逃竄,向阿格西勞斯和他的重裝步兵靠攏,因為他們碰巧就在附近。

——色諾芬,希臘史,第四卷第1章16-19

前面有人提到高加米拉的不同記載,可見以下譯文:

鐮刀戰車的突破:

The charioteers drove on at full speed, in order to trample down greater numbers by a surprise attack. Therefore some were cut to pieces by the spears that projected far in advance of the pole, others by the scythes that pointed downward on both sides. And the Macedonians did not give ground gradually, but in scattered flight had thrown their ranks into disorder.

鐮刀戰車的潰敗和突圍,還特意描寫了下被割到的慘狀:

Meanwhile the chariots, which in the neighbourhood of the leading standards had thrown the army into confusion, had charged upon the phalanx; the Macedonians with steady courage received them into the midst of their column. Their line was like a rampart; they had made a continuous row of spears together, and on both sides stabbed the flanks of the horses, as these rushed recklessly upon them. Then they began to encircle the chariots also and to hurl those who fought in them to the ground. The great overthrow of horses and charioteers had filled the field of battle; the charioteers could not control their frightened horses, which by repeated tossing of their necks had not only thrown off their yokes, but had even over turned the chariots; when wounded, they dragged along the dead, and were unable to stop through terror or to advance through weakness. Yet a few chariots-and-four made their way through to the rear, destroying those whom they met by a wretched death; for the severed limbs of men lay upon the ground, and since there was no pain while their wounds were still warm, maimed and weak though they were, some did not drop their weapons until they fell on their faces, dead from great loss of blood.

——Curtius的Loeb譯本

順便,決定繼業者大勢的Ipsus(前301年)里,取勝的塞琉古聯軍一方就有100輛鐮刀——雖然作戰細節欠奉,所以瑞祥一說顯然也無法成立。

注:本文所有圖片均來源于網絡。

本文是看北朝發布內容。主編原廓,作者北朝網友,歡迎任何媒體或者公眾號轉載,轉載同是需注明出處,若有未注明者取消轉載資格。

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